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	<title>Comments on: Blame Greece&#8217;s Debt Crisis on the Euro</title>
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	<link>http://www.stubbornmule.net/2010/02/greece-debt-crisis/</link>
	<description>Obstinately objective</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 00:13:41 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: blue monkey</title>
		<link>http://www.stubbornmule.net/2010/02/greece-debt-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-7592</link>
		<dc:creator>blue monkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 May 2010 03:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stubbornmule.net/?p=2658#comment-7592</guid>
		<description>Greece and Spain won&#039;t pay back. The only thing Germans can do is:
REPOSES 170 Leopard 2AEX Battle Tanks from Greece, and 190 Leopard 2A6E Battle Tanks from Spain.
U.S.A must REPOSES 170 F-16 Jet Fighters from Greece, the rest is gone with the wind …forever …
Greece must stop paying lucrative pensions with borrowed money, reform the health care system, and cut 4 times the military budged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greece and Spain won&#8217;t pay back. The only thing Germans can do is:<br />
REPOSES 170 Leopard 2AEX Battle Tanks from Greece, and 190 Leopard 2A6E Battle Tanks from Spain.<br />
U.S.A must REPOSES 170 F-16 Jet Fighters from Greece, the rest is gone with the wind …forever …<br />
Greece must stop paying lucrative pensions with borrowed money, reform the health care system, and cut 4 times the military budged.</p>
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		<title>By: Stubborn Mule</title>
		<link>http://www.stubbornmule.net/2010/02/greece-debt-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-6180</link>
		<dc:creator>Stubborn Mule</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stubbornmule.net/?p=2658#comment-6180</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Marco:&lt;/b&gt; excellent, I&#039;ll have a read. Also, you should sign up for the &lt;a href=&quot;http://stable.stubbornmule.net&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mule Stable&lt;/a&gt; and post a link to the post there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Marco:</b> excellent, I&#8217;ll have a read. Also, you should sign up for the <a href="http://stable.stubbornmule.net">Mule Stable</a> and post a link to the post there.</p>
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		<title>By: Marco</title>
		<link>http://www.stubbornmule.net/2010/02/greece-debt-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-6179</link>
		<dc:creator>Marco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stubbornmule.net/?p=2658#comment-6179</guid>
		<description>Stubborn,

As a follow up to my last post:  as sometimes a go ballistic with this kind of things, I prepared a more elaborate and hopefully level-headed one on the BCA Budget Submission. You can find it here:

http://aussiemagpie.blogspot.com/2010/02/uninterested-advice.html

You will find that I abstained from commenting the Submission from a chartalist perspective. I did this deliberately  in an attempt to use the very neo-classical logic to show its short-comings.

I also abstained from commenting parallel debates overseas. In the UK and the USA this is a major topic and one that will have further repercussions here. But I decided, for brevity&#039;s sake, to let this debate for another opportunity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stubborn,</p>
<p>As a follow up to my last post:  as sometimes a go ballistic with this kind of things, I prepared a more elaborate and hopefully level-headed one on the BCA Budget Submission. You can find it here:</p>
<p><a href="http://aussiemagpie.blogspot.com/2010/02/uninterested-advice.html">http://aussiemagpie.blogspot.com/2010/02/uninterested-advice.html</a></p>
<p>You will find that I abstained from commenting the Submission from a chartalist perspective. I did this deliberately  in an attempt to use the very neo-classical logic to show its short-comings.</p>
<p>I also abstained from commenting parallel debates overseas. In the UK and the USA this is a major topic and one that will have further repercussions here. But I decided, for brevity&#8217;s sake, to let this debate for another opportunity.</p>
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		<title>By: Stubborn Mule</title>
		<link>http://www.stubbornmule.net/2010/02/greece-debt-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-6164</link>
		<dc:creator>Stubborn Mule</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 01:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stubbornmule.net/?p=2658#comment-6164</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;CV:&lt;/b&gt; you are certainly right that there was contributory negligence on the part of the Greek government. It seems did their best to hide much of their borrowing &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,676634,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;with help from Goldman Sachs&lt;/a&gt;  (funny how they seem to have their fingers in every aspect of the crisis). Still, if they had control of their own currency, they may never have been tempted into that sort of creating accounting in the first place and would certainly have had far more flexibility to address their economic woes. Whether or not they would have used that flexibility wisely is another question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>CV:</b> you are certainly right that there was contributory negligence on the part of the Greek government. It seems did their best to hide much of their borrowing <a href="http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,676634,00.html">with help from Goldman Sachs</a>  (funny how they seem to have their fingers in every aspect of the crisis). Still, if they had control of their own currency, they may never have been tempted into that sort of creating accounting in the first place and would certainly have had far more flexibility to address their economic woes. Whether or not they would have used that flexibility wisely is another question.</p>
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		<title>By: CV</title>
		<link>http://www.stubbornmule.net/2010/02/greece-debt-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-6163</link>
		<dc:creator>CV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 00:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stubbornmule.net/?p=2658#comment-6163</guid>
		<description>&quot;The fact remains, that the euro is the real reason Greece finds itself facing a debt crisis&quot;.  That&#039;s true but there has also been a lot of bodgy public accounting going on for many years, and they are paying the price in the markets  for that now.  Greece will survive but the ride is going to be most unpleasant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The fact remains, that the euro is the real reason Greece finds itself facing a debt crisis&#8221;.  That&#8217;s true but there has also been a lot of bodgy public accounting going on for many years, and they are paying the price in the markets  for that now.  Greece will survive but the ride is going to be most unpleasant.</p>
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		<title>By: Marco</title>
		<link>http://www.stubbornmule.net/2010/02/greece-debt-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-6101</link>
		<dc:creator>Marco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stubbornmule.net/?p=2658#comment-6101</guid>
		<description>Now, my friend, have a look at what the Business Council of Australia is proposing to solve the &quot;fiscal deficit&quot;:

Balancing Act: Fiscal and Policy Priorities to Support Growth
http://www.bca.com.au/Content/101654.aspx

This is the analysis I submitted to another friend&#039;s website:

&quot;At the moment, I don’t dare to state what could be the end result of this move by the BCA.

&quot;At one hand, the Rudd government is starting to feel that voter support is falling. This might make them reluctant to move openly to satisfy their corporate masters.

&quot;On the other hand, Rudd has boasted of being a &#039;fiscal conservative&#039; and we know what that means.

&quot;And Abbott and co are not beyond trying to depict themselves as champions of the oppressed: remember the short-lived &#039;Abbott’s battlers&#039;? They could resurrect it.

&quot;As the RBA will not be changing their policy of raising interest rates, the combination of higher interest rates, fiscal cuts and worsening global economic outlook could have severe recessive consequences by middle to end of the year.

&quot;These people should be grateful that stupidity, incompetence and greed are not crimes punishable by death.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now, my friend, have a look at what the Business Council of Australia is proposing to solve the &#8220;fiscal deficit&#8221;:</p>
<p>Balancing Act: Fiscal and Policy Priorities to Support Growth<br />
<a href="http://www.bca.com.au/Content/101654.aspx">http://www.bca.com.au/Content/101654.aspx</a></p>
<p>This is the analysis I submitted to another friend&#8217;s website:</p>
<p>&#8220;At the moment, I don’t dare to state what could be the end result of this move by the BCA.</p>
<p>&#8220;At one hand, the Rudd government is starting to feel that voter support is falling. This might make them reluctant to move openly to satisfy their corporate masters.</p>
<p>&#8220;On the other hand, Rudd has boasted of being a &#8216;fiscal conservative&#8217; and we know what that means.</p>
<p>&#8220;And Abbott and co are not beyond trying to depict themselves as champions of the oppressed: remember the short-lived &#8216;Abbott’s battlers&#8217;? They could resurrect it.</p>
<p>&#8220;As the RBA will not be changing their policy of raising interest rates, the combination of higher interest rates, fiscal cuts and worsening global economic outlook could have severe recessive consequences by middle to end of the year.</p>
<p>&#8220;These people should be grateful that stupidity, incompetence and greed are not crimes punishable by death.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Stubborn Mule</title>
		<link>http://www.stubbornmule.net/2010/02/greece-debt-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-6100</link>
		<dc:creator>Stubborn Mule</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stubbornmule.net/?p=2658#comment-6100</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Marco:&lt;/b&gt; I&#039;ve have heard some of those Goldman Sachs stories. Now I&#039;m just waiting for the Rolling Stone exposé!

When it comes to politicians, they can get things wrong out because they do not understand what they are talking about or they can choose to misrepresent the facts for political ends. I&#039;m not sure what is worse: an ignorant politician or a dishonest one. Unfortunately in the case of Barnaby Joyce, I fear he is politicking and ignorant when it comes to the national debt.

Thanks for your comment about the mortgage piece...as you correctly identify, sometimes the topics that interest me most and the topics of broadest interest are quite different!

Also, I do plan to keep going with the monetary theory posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Marco:</b> I&#8217;ve have heard some of those Goldman Sachs stories. Now I&#8217;m just waiting for the Rolling Stone exposé!</p>
<p>When it comes to politicians, they can get things wrong out because they do not understand what they are talking about or they can choose to misrepresent the facts for political ends. I&#8217;m not sure what is worse: an ignorant politician or a dishonest one. Unfortunately in the case of Barnaby Joyce, I fear he is politicking and ignorant when it comes to the national debt.</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment about the mortgage piece&#8230;as you correctly identify, sometimes the topics that interest me most and the topics of broadest interest are quite different!</p>
<p>Also, I do plan to keep going with the monetary theory posts.</p>
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		<title>By: Marco</title>
		<link>http://www.stubbornmule.net/2010/02/greece-debt-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-6098</link>
		<dc:creator>Marco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 07:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stubbornmule.net/?p=2658#comment-6098</guid>
		<description>Good article, Stubborn. I wish you resume your modern monetary theory tutorials soon. 

But -to tell the truth and I mean no offense here-, as is often the case, people in economics overlook politics. It was Turnbull and Hockey who started the latest debt scaremongering episode in Australia: with their &quot;indebting our children&#039;s future&quot;. Pretty much like The Simpsons&#039; Mrs. Lovejoy &quot;Think of the children&quot;.

Other than the punch line, it was the same story: public and private debts together, as if they were the same thing.

Asked about what they would have done differently, they both pointed to cut down the &quot;cash splash&quot;.

What Joyce is doing is just to rehash the same BS, now replacing the &quot;children&#039;s future&quot; with the &quot;sovereign debt default&quot; (I suppose that Joyce can actually read, and has read that there&#039;s a country called Greece, that has debt problems; ergo, let&#039;s say the same about Oz, as it sounds scary).

Regarding CDS: there are rumours that Goldman Sachs has aided Greece in hiding their debt, while betting that the euro will fall. And Joe Stiglitz and others have advanced the hypothesis that part of the crisis is due to an speculative attack against the euro, similar to that credited to Soros against the pound.

Let&#039;s wait and see.

Cheers

Marco

PS: I&#039;ve read your Mortgages in Australia piece and I found it extremely useful, for a variety of reasons. Although it may not be as glamorous as other topics (like sovereign debt defaults!), I believe as a matter of public interest, it&#039;s superior. And you write in a very didactic way, such that the public in general can understand your ideas!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article, Stubborn. I wish you resume your modern monetary theory tutorials soon. </p>
<p>But -to tell the truth and I mean no offense here-, as is often the case, people in economics overlook politics. It was Turnbull and Hockey who started the latest debt scaremongering episode in Australia: with their &#8220;indebting our children&#8217;s future&#8221;. Pretty much like The Simpsons&#8217; Mrs. Lovejoy &#8220;Think of the children&#8221;.</p>
<p>Other than the punch line, it was the same story: public and private debts together, as if they were the same thing.</p>
<p>Asked about what they would have done differently, they both pointed to cut down the &#8220;cash splash&#8221;.</p>
<p>What Joyce is doing is just to rehash the same BS, now replacing the &#8220;children&#8217;s future&#8221; with the &#8220;sovereign debt default&#8221; (I suppose that Joyce can actually read, and has read that there&#8217;s a country called Greece, that has debt problems; ergo, let&#8217;s say the same about Oz, as it sounds scary).</p>
<p>Regarding CDS: there are rumours that Goldman Sachs has aided Greece in hiding their debt, while betting that the euro will fall. And Joe Stiglitz and others have advanced the hypothesis that part of the crisis is due to an speculative attack against the euro, similar to that credited to Soros against the pound.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s wait and see.</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
<p>Marco</p>
<p>PS: I&#8217;ve read your Mortgages in Australia piece and I found it extremely useful, for a variety of reasons. Although it may not be as glamorous as other topics (like sovereign debt defaults!), I believe as a matter of public interest, it&#8217;s superior. And you write in a very didactic way, such that the public in general can understand your ideas!</p>
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		<title>By: Neerav</title>
		<link>http://www.stubbornmule.net/2010/02/greece-debt-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-6072</link>
		<dc:creator>Neerav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stubbornmule.net/?p=2658#comment-6072</guid>
		<description>&quot;one person working in the markets who refers to sovereign credit default swaps as a device for &#039;taking money from stupid people and giving it to smart people&#039; &quot;

- that quote is refreshingly honest :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;one person working in the markets who refers to sovereign credit default swaps as a device for &#8216;taking money from stupid people and giving it to smart people&#8217; &#8221;</p>
<p>- that quote is refreshingly honest :-)</p>
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